forgingfires | Seasons Inbox

All right, I'll bite even if I'm probably going to regret it: what do you see in me? At least I can trust you to not be wearing rose-colored glasses about it.

[ His tone certainly implies he doesn't want to be fluffed up. ]

He can see the scraps thing however he likes, but I know he doesn't deserve that. Him being willing to accept shoddy treatment doesn't make it right.

Its only shoddy if you treat him shoddy. Sometimes he just waits for people to be ready to reach back.

[He takes another drink and then rests his cheek against his fist, looking Macaque over with a thoughtful look.]

Its definitely not rose colored glasses. Its just my experiences. I'm sure if you had to choose between me and either Wukong or MK to drop into the abyss, I would go into the abyss. I would assume you'd choose yourself over me as well. I know if I give you a reason to be cruel, you'd be cruel without hesitation.

You'd probably be all right with using me too, if you had a enough reason.

But I do think at this point, you'd need a significant enough reason. Maybe not a good one, but a significant one.

There is something to that though. Your jagged edges are present enough that its impossible to put you on a pedestal, and that makes you oddly easy to talk to. Even beyond Wukong. I don't have to worry about looking less than perfect because you're not perfect, and you're not trying to be perfect. MK, Wukong, even Saya, all have roles where they try to play, whether its on purpose or not. Be the hero, be appealing, be all these things that people want and its hard to not buy into it a little bit. And that can make it hard to say certain things because even if I trust MK to not reject me, it makes me hold back certain things because I don't want to burden him, or make him disappointed.

But you? As long as there's enough trust to believe you're not going to turn around and use all that personal information like a knife, its easy to start talking and keep talking.

You don't make me feel judged or like I'm not doing good enough, even when I don't feel like I'm good enough. The feelings were already there, but they can finally be safely outside and you'll listen, or push to get past those feelings without looking for the 'right' answer, just the answer needed to go somewhere.

Basically, for all you have fronts and layers of sarcasm, all that is enough of a sign that you're imperfect, but also its clear you're really good at figuring people out, that lying to you doesn't feel like there's much point.

And suddenly, its all right to be imperfect.

And that...

[He looks at his glass.] That is something to treasure. To have someone you can say your failures around and not have to feel like one for daring to breathe a word of them.

There's more, but I believe we've talked about being overwhelming.

[ Macaque doesn't make a sound, barely moves during all that. And for a long moment after. ]

Might as well say whatever else, or I'll drive myself crazy trying to guess. [ You can't just say something like that and leave it. ]

[ Macaque doesn't sound overwhelmed, at least. He's just quiet. ]

Hm.

For reference, I would not be surprised if that was something MK valued. He and I are similar in that fear.

[He pours more into his glass, though not the good stuff this time.]

Of course, there is the more general, obvious things. You're strong. [This is always an Attractive Trait to the Demon Bull Family.] You're good in bed. You're can be just fun to be around.

You've always been fairly straight with me. I know what you expect of me, you don't demand things I can't give. Its easy to just be candid. There is a lot of understanding when it comes to MK and Wukong. Its easy to be around you, and I hope that is as natural as I thought and isn't just you making it easy on purpose.

You're clever. You're thoughtful of why things are happening and why you do things, even if you have to examine things after the fact. You don't treat people with kid gloves, and at least I don't think you're unkind about it. But my standards could be skewed there. Demon and all.

[There is a pause.]

I think you're motivated a lot more by love than I think anyone would expect.

You listen to me. Not just about my headspace, but for doing things. Take me seriously.

[ One may think that Macaque would argue about at least some of that, but he doesn't. ]

I know MK sees some of those same things, even the flaws. He's not stupid. He's the opposite, when it comes to others. But he can be very stupid about himself.

He was upset that I said yes to going to bed with you and no to him, that's how much he doesn't get it. How different those two things are. Part of it was being jealous of you and someone else, but still. He really doesn't see himself accurately in the slightest.

There's no way he won't keep asking for more and more. He won't even realize it, since it's so natural to him. So it's not that I'll hurt him eventually, it's that it would be continuous. There is no time when I wouldn't be fighting it.

Jealous? [He raises an eyebrow at that. He hums.] I'll have to check in with him about that. He seemed more concerned I might have felt used when we talked about it. After the...Wukong spite aspect.

But if you're rejecting his friendship actively, it does send some mixed signals. And he is an idiot about himself.

Do you want me to talk to him about that? [Red Son knows he's not gonna stop MK, but maybe help ease any accidental hurts.]

If you want to. He kept going on about how he shouldn't feel that way because he has Cole and all that, but emotions and logic so rarely match up succinctly. You thought it was okay, he says it was but he has some feelings about it, that's normal. Trust me, I speak from vast experience.

I did kind of tell him I'd lay off you. Whether that's a permanent thing or a temporary thing is your call. [ Talk to your partner and figure things out. ]

But that's not the point, and I don't have any place in that discussion. The point is that he thinks me and you and me and him would be equivalent, but you and I both understand that they're not.

Saying "no" consistently is not a mixed signal. I'll be there when he needs help, but that's different than being friends. [ CLEARLY. ]

Edited 2023-11-27 22:10 (UTC)

...I know. I was feeling possessive during the full moon. Nothing unbearable and I wouldn't say I was really upset, but in the moment, the feelings were there.

I just wish he brought up the jealousy when we talked about you. He absolutely forbade doing it to spite Wukong, which was fair, but said he was all right otherwise and I didn't get the feeling he was doing that....self sacrificing thing.

I'll talk to him. Though I suppose this means no to that particular distraction tonight? [It was a possibility he also accounted for.]

They're very much not equivalent. Which...he should also understand if he's going to keep trying to go for you. Beyond just jealousy reasons. [There might be more feelings than MK is expecting.]

...Macaque, I literally helped him save the world because my father was also captured and he took that self serving good deed as a reason to aggressively befriend me.

You being personally invested in him while also saying you're not friends is a very mixed signal, so its no wonder he doesn't quite understand fucking me and fucking him have totally different connotations beyond his own issues.

[ He waves a hand dismissively. ] I can't answer any of that, do what you will with the information. But him being jealous and him saying it's okay are not necessarily contradictory. Jealousy is normal, you just have to accept it unless you want to be exclusive with him. Both of you do.

That sort if distraction was never going to be on the table for right now, whether MK said that or not. I could not be less in then mood. But you're correct that what he said means I'm hands off until you tell me you're both fine about it. [ He would not trust MK to be honest about it, in the sense of being honest with himself. ]

[ That feelings thought, oh boy is that off base. If only it was that simple. ]

He said he's curious and he thinks he could learn some things from me. Neither of which are very good reasons. There's a lot of places he could learn things or satisfy his curiosity. My thought is that he wants a turn because you did, which is a worse reason. My other thought is he thinks that's a form of closeness I'd accept more readily, which is not only a terrible reason but actively manipulative, even if he would never see it that way or do it consciously.

I told him I couldn't say no, but after hearing him say all that, plus the continued refusal to accept that I don't want to be friends... I can't imagine that saying yes would do anything but make all that worse.

Besides, something else he said to me really made me want to distance myself. [ You can tell this is the heart of the matter because it's said as a throwaway line. ]

I know, I know. Its why I didn't try to fight Cole, I just have to get properly used to it. Its not an unbearable feeling, and if it means everyone involved can be happy most of the time, a little jealousy is worth it.

[He nods.] Fair. I just wasn't sure how you'd want to go about it, I just made sure I was ready for whatever you'd need. But I'm going to talk to him.

To be fair...I did give you a glowing review. [He is blushing faintly at the admittance.] Also I think you would hit into a number of things he's into. He adores a show. He certainly had thoughts about you tying him up before.

[MK is so thirsty and Red Son knows it.]

And there is something to be said about learning from someone whose experienced and you trust.

What did he say?

[ That shit about "whatever you'd need" is so upsetting. ]

Yes, well. I'm not a toy. [ You get how all that about "but I'm curious" and "but I could learn some things" is at the very least slightly insulting, right? There's a difference between "I'm attracted to you and I think we could have fun" and that mess. ]

You and me, whatever else it was, everything was mutual. We both wanted and expected the same things. Whatever you think about it is based in that. And at this point, with MK, it isn't. We don't want the same things from each other, not in the slightest. And that makes it complicated in a way he definitely doesn't understand.

And there are other complications, of course. I tried to explain it to him but it's not easily defined. Long and short of it is, the relationship between me and Wukong, and between him and Wukong, and between me and him, have some very uncomfortable intersections that I don't especially want to start plucking at.

[ A sigh. STUPID MUSHROOMS. ] Wukong calls him bud. Which is what he called me. Only me.

[He's being supportive and its not like he has a problem being the distraction.]

...you know he'd never see you as a toy, right? [This IS MK after all.]

It is important to be on the same page for this sort of thing. I can talk to him about that. I do get why he's confused, so I think I can explain it to him. [Plus he doesn't have the problem Macaque does where Macaque would have to be honest and vulnerable in a way he may not be ready for.]

[But that does give him pause right there.]

[And Red Son has been drinking and there is definitely some Math Lady Meme face going on.]

Does....

Does Wukong love-no, obviously he does. [OBVIOUSLY Wukong loves MK, that isn't the real question.] Does Wukong want to be that close with MK?

[ Macaque actually scowls, but he does it into his glass. ]

Hell if I know, and hell if I want to know. All I know is that the thought makes me absolutely crazy.

And I also know that MK knew exactly how much it would hurt me to hear that, and he said it anyway. He did try to reverse course once I saw him avoiding a subject, but come on. It's not like I was harping on it or would refuse to take no for an answer.

[THIS IS HIGHLY CONCERNING INFORMATION AND RED SON IS JUST GONNA DOWN HIS GLASS AND POUR ANOTHER OF THE GOOD STUFF.]

[There is much agreement in the absolutely crazy sentiment.]

...I will say.

For as intuitive as MK can be, he can also be incredibly dense. Particularly when it comes to trying to establish where he is with people. And if he was emotional? What subject was he avoiding?

[ At least they are of one mind on this potential madness. ]

He was avoiding saying a lot, it was right after Wukong's amnesia started. I was trying to reassure him that we'd have him back at some point and he was doing that MK thing where he's not fine and refuses to say anything because he thinks everything is his fault.

I did gather myself to tell him that it's not his fault, and then I moved on because I can't even consider that. I'll lose my mind. I would have thought I'd be okay with whatever until MK said that, but after I heard it I know I definitely wouldn't be.

Hm. [An acknowledgement because he has also been dealing with the MK thinks everything is his fault and has been trying to reassure him against it. Its a Process.]

So if you sleep with him after him calling you Bud, it'd fuck you up? I understand that right?

--What? No. That's what makes me want to distance myself from MK overall. Even though it's not his choice or fault what Wukong called him, he had a choice about saying something that he knew I'd have a bad reaction to because he knew the history. He acknowledged that he shouldn't have told me. Not only that, after Wukong's transformation he called me that in order to get a reaction out of me, which he also acknowledged.

We've established that he's stupid about himself, but not about other people. He knew that what he was doing was below the belt when he called me that, even if it could be argued that I asked for him to tell me whatever he wasn't saying before he told me about Wukong using the nickname for him. [ The second one is excusable. The first one, absolutely fucking not. It was intentionally hurtful. ]

There's no one cause. It's a lot of little things that aren't so easy to list off.

I told you that Wukong is the only one I've ever loved, and the only one I ever expect to, so don't go thinking it's that. I'm not getting any wires crossed. But the wires exist, and their similarities to each other exist, and it gets weird fast, especially with him calling me his teacher all the time. Hearing all this about nicknames definitely didn't uncomplicate things at all.

[That does get a look of surprise from Red Son.] MK used it to hurt you?

I don't think he realized how much it would hurt me. He said it to try to challenge something I said that he didn't like hearing, about not wanting to get close to anyone, I said don't call me that, then he said he hadn't thought it through. Which I called out for the bullshit it was, and I told him that he said it to get a reaction out of me, and he admitted I was right.

So... yeah. To hurt me.

That's when the stuff about jealousy came out. Which confirms that he was lashing out at least a little.

That is...deeply concerning. [On SEVERAL levels. He knows MK can get possessive, but actually lashing out at Macaque and misjudging that hard is]

[Definitely a concern.]

I'm going to talk to him. Sorry you had to deal with...whatever is going through his head.

It's not your fault. In the slightest. MK even admitted that neither of us did anything wrong except for the spite aspect.

And I don't think it was just jealousy. I suspect a combination of that, me telling him no when I didn't say no to you, worry about Wukong's transformation and anger at me for causing that situation. The latter of which is fair enough and I acknowledged all the things I did wrong, but none of that magically solves anything.

But my reaction there probably should have made him think twice about admitting that Wukong gave him my nickname.

So I don't think I'm the only one with things going on that would make screwing around a mistake.

Its definitely a combination. Lashing out is a pretty extreme reaction for him, and he has been dealing with a lot. Its not an excuse, just an explnation.

I imagine the anger isn't as big as a factor as you might think it is. And if it is, I definitely need to talk to him before he gets weird at Cole.

Cole didn't do anything wrong. He didn't even know it was me at the time I made that promise, and by then it was done. If anyone should get the brunt of that, it should be me. Wukong asked me not to talk to him for a while, but I still broke my word after I gave it.

...Maybe that was a factor in him admitting that Wukong uses my nickname for him. Maybe he was lashing out again because yet again, something I did hurt Wukong in a way that took Wukong away from him.

Doesn't really make it okay that he went for the tender spots rather than admit the truth, but it might not have teased it apart so much.

But either he's hurting me on purpose or he's doing it because he's angry with me, and neither of them are particularly conducive to being friends or jumping into bed. And that's not accounting for all the other crossed wires I mentioned, which would be enough on their own.

Cole would beg to differ.

Did MK say specifically he was doing it to hurt, or just getting a reaction?

Cole can beg all he wants, he didn't do anything wrong. He was trying to help, in fact. [ Very slight protective hackles raised, yep. ]

I didn't ask if he did it to hurt, I said he did it to get a reaction and he confirmed it. But you know what you know about me and Wukong, you knew without me telling you that it would hurt me to have that nickname thrown at me casually. MK is good at knowing these things.

And if it wasn't meant to hit me where it hurts, why would the very next thing he said be "I'm jealous of you right now"? [ Come on, now. ]

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