Unfortunately, probably not tell him that for a while. At least the intensity.
Its like... [He glances at the bottle. He pauses an huffs a bit in amusement, grabbing it to pour another, though he also motions and asks for another bottle. Something to mix in so its not so strong.]
Its like how you react to the thought of friends who aren't Wukong. Maybe start like that.
What would make you comfortable to have someone else call you friend? And try going at it from that angle.
I wouldn't tell him that. He's like a skittish animal right now. The best move is probably to hold my hand out in a nonthreatening manner and wait to be approached. I'm not an idiot; I'm telling you all this, there's no intention to tell him.
[ He empties his glass again and fills it with more of the strong stuff. And then drinks half of that. ]
If I only knew. MK is already on me about being his friend, and Cole to a much less intense extent, and they won't accept me telling them that it's a terrible idea.
With Wukong it was always like a joke about magnets, we couldn't keep from getting closer if we tried. Even during this conversation where he was essentially shooting me down, he had his arms and tail around me for half of it. With him it's natural. With anyone else it definitely isn't.
Hmm, that might work. You may have to push a little sometimes. He's...very skittish.
Well, at least that's proof he definitely wants things to work out. He wants closeness, even if he's afraid. Especially when he's not that touchy with most. You're special.
Why do you think you're a terrible idea to befriend?
I know how to handle him. Or at least I knew, and it seems like I still have enough going for me in that regard. It's me I apparently have the problem with.
[ Since the mushrooms have yet to wear off, Macaque smiles a bit at the thought that Wukong still thinks he's special. And so he takes a long drink to cover it up. ]
Don't you start on me too. It's no great mystery why I'm afraid to get close to people.
[He shrugged.] I like to think I'm a little less...overwhelming in these matters than Noodle Boy. I don't know about Cole, but he can be kind of pushy.
And I know why you're afraid to get close to people, but it is different than being a terrible idea. There's being afraid of being hurt and thinking the idea in general is terrible.
[ It's around this point that Macaque realizes he should have waited until the damn mushrooms wore off to have this discussion. ]
I'll hurt him. Both of them. It's a certainty, because I don't get close to people and I feel backed into a corner the more they try. And I don't want to do that.
[He hums. He grabs some snacks and shift them over to Macaque. Something to help absorb all the alcohol.]
Noodle Boy just decided one day we were going to be friends and he refused to take no for an answer. And of course I did say no. I was saying no for a long, long time.
I don't know if it was stubborn optimism, or his intuition that made him pursue me because he knew I wanted him to on some level.
Then I heard about the day on the beach.
I was taken from the moment I was captured into the scroll. Wukong actually told me about it at first and that may have contributed to our problems. After all, here Wukong shows up when its just us here, telling me that hey, my parents are fine! Not only that, they're comfortable enough around everyone we could have a day on the beach! [He waves his hands in the air.] I couldn't believe it at first. It sounded too good to be true.
I had been spending everyday since we defeated the Lady Bone Demon absolutely certain one day our friendship was going to fall apart. That father would decide he wanted to conquer again and I would have to choose.
Yet I let them pull me along anyway. Let them befriend me and make me happy because it felt too painful to reject it before I was forced to. I was too selfish and masochistic to do so.
Then MK confirmed the beach happened and it was... [He laughs breathlessly, and take another long sip.] A lot.
I could be his friend. I didn't have to hold back. Whatever made my parents agree to a beach day, I could make sure it lasted a century at least. I didn't have to guard my heart from the knife I was sure I was going to have to force into it anymore.
.....and I realized all the ways I had been a bad friend to him.
[ Macaque looks at the snacks, rolls his eyes, and drinks more. He's not a child. ]
--How wonderful for you. But like everyone else, you're missing the point.
Look what I did to the person I love most in the world. I broke him apart just because I could. Because anger was easier than feeling anything else. Imagine what MK would do with that. He has enough troubles in this world, enough doubts. I'm not going to be another thing he has to survive.
That is a whole different sentence, what are you even talking about. Don't make wild inferences, it's disingenuous and you're smart enough to know what I'm getting at.
And I'm not asking that in a serious 'should I actually do it' way, its a 'I have a point' question.
The fact is, I hurt MK. I hurt him badly.
And that was after I apologized after months of not. How he had gone after me over and over again for friendship and I never even had the nerve to let him know that I regret now all those times I hurt him now.
So I apologized and told him I never wanted to hurt him on purpose again.
And then I hurt him bad enough that he lashed out, albeit in a form that makes it hard for him to control his emotions. But I still did that.
And then I apologized again, even if I didn't tell him....how badly I got hurt. [Because MK definitely didn't need to know THE EXTENT.] Just enough for him to know that I was the reason why he was upset the morning after.
Because even if MK isn't demanding apologies or attempts to make up for past actions, he deserves them. And I love him, so I make sure to give him what he's owed. Especially when I fuck up with him.
I know all that. At least the generalities of it. That's all well and good for you, but I'm not you.
The difference is you're willing to try it. And I really shouldn't need to say anything more than that I don't want to for everyone to just accept it. Maybe that changes for me and maybe not, but it's not something I should have to be talked into.
My goal isn't to talk you into it. Being forced does suck.
But.
Let your no be because its what you want over what you're afraid might happen to MK. MK isn't fragile. Especially when you are so ready to accept when others do the exact same fuck ups you're afraid of doing yourself.
Sometimes he makes it so he just has to endure things, true, but that's why he has people around him. To make sure he gets what he deserves.
You said that wrong, it's the burden of other people presuming they know better than I do what would make me happy. Sure, in a perfect world where literally everything is different I'm sure I'd have a whole pack of close friends and be delighted, but I'm stuck in this one. Pretending things are different doesn't make it so.
[ Apparently Macaque isn't quite ready to drop it. Mushrooms and all. ]
Wukong has always been the only exception to all of that. Even our brothers, it was never the same. I wouldn't have bothered with them at all if Wukong hadn't pulled me in. And I'm quite sure they wouldn't have bothered with me.
Since I met him, I never needed or wanted anyone else. Then MK comes along and keeps insisting I'm his teacher when I only did that to get to Wukong, and he said he's willing to accept scraps of friendship from me and that's blatantly ridiculous, Cole keeps insisting he trusts me and what is wrong with them that they can't see what's wrong with me?
If I knew the answer to that, I'd understand a lot more what MK sees in me.
I know what I see in you, but that may be different from what they see. MK, at least, has a history of finding things in people they wouldn't see in themselves and then pulling them out. Whether or not that's on purpose or just his effect on people, I don't know.
Though I think what he sees as scraps is different from how you see it. That's probably him being patient.
All right, I'll bite even if I'm probably going to regret it: what do you see in me? At least I can trust you to not be wearing rose-colored glasses about it.
[ His tone certainly implies he doesn't want to be fluffed up. ]
He can see the scraps thing however he likes, but I know he doesn't deserve that. Him being willing to accept shoddy treatment doesn't make it right.
Its only shoddy if you treat him shoddy. Sometimes he just waits for people to be ready to reach back.
[He takes another drink and then rests his cheek against his fist, looking Macaque over with a thoughtful look.]
Its definitely not rose colored glasses. Its just my experiences. I'm sure if you had to choose between me and either Wukong or MK to drop into the abyss, I would go into the abyss. I would assume you'd choose yourself over me as well. I know if I give you a reason to be cruel, you'd be cruel without hesitation.
You'd probably be all right with using me too, if you had a enough reason.
But I do think at this point, you'd need a significant enough reason. Maybe not a good one, but a significant one.
There is something to that though. Your jagged edges are present enough that its impossible to put you on a pedestal, and that makes you oddly easy to talk to. Even beyond Wukong. I don't have to worry about looking less than perfect because you're not perfect, and you're not trying to be perfect. MK, Wukong, even Saya, all have roles where they try to play, whether its on purpose or not. Be the hero, be appealing, be all these things that people want and its hard to not buy into it a little bit. And that can make it hard to say certain things because even if I trust MK to not reject me, it makes me hold back certain things because I don't want to burden him, or make him disappointed.
But you? As long as there's enough trust to believe you're not going to turn around and use all that personal information like a knife, its easy to start talking and keep talking.
You don't make me feel judged or like I'm not doing good enough, even when I don't feel like I'm good enough. The feelings were already there, but they can finally be safely outside and you'll listen, or push to get past those feelings without looking for the 'right' answer, just the answer needed to go somewhere.
Basically, for all you have fronts and layers of sarcasm, all that is enough of a sign that you're imperfect, but also its clear you're really good at figuring people out, that lying to you doesn't feel like there's much point.
And suddenly, its all right to be imperfect.
And that...
[He looks at his glass.] That is something to treasure. To have someone you can say your failures around and not have to feel like one for daring to breathe a word of them.
There's more, but I believe we've talked about being overwhelming.
For reference, I would not be surprised if that was something MK valued. He and I are similar in that fear.
[He pours more into his glass, though not the good stuff this time.]
Of course, there is the more general, obvious things. You're strong. [This is always an Attractive Trait to the Demon Bull Family.] You're good in bed. You're can be just fun to be around.
You've always been fairly straight with me. I know what you expect of me, you don't demand things I can't give. Its easy to just be candid. There is a lot of understanding when it comes to MK and Wukong. Its easy to be around you, and I hope that is as natural as I thought and isn't just you making it easy on purpose.
You're clever. You're thoughtful of why things are happening and why you do things, even if you have to examine things after the fact. You don't treat people with kid gloves, and at least I don't think you're unkind about it. But my standards could be skewed there. Demon and all.
[There is a pause.]
I think you're motivated a lot more by love than I think anyone would expect.
You listen to me. Not just about my headspace, but for doing things. Take me seriously.
[ One may think that Macaque would argue about at least some of that, but he doesn't. ]
I know MK sees some of those same things, even the flaws. He's not stupid. He's the opposite, when it comes to others. But he can be very stupid about himself.
He was upset that I said yes to going to bed with you and no to him, that's how much he doesn't get it. How different those two things are. Part of it was being jealous of you and someone else, but still. He really doesn't see himself accurately in the slightest.
There's no way he won't keep asking for more and more. He won't even realize it, since it's so natural to him. So it's not that I'll hurt him eventually, it's that it would be continuous. There is no time when I wouldn't be fighting it.
Jealous? [He raises an eyebrow at that. He hums.] I'll have to check in with him about that. He seemed more concerned I might have felt used when we talked about it. After the...Wukong spite aspect.
But if you're rejecting his friendship actively, it does send some mixed signals. And he is an idiot about himself.
Do you want me to talk to him about that? [Red Son knows he's not gonna stop MK, but maybe help ease any accidental hurts.]
Re: after the truthshrooms
Its like... [He glances at the bottle. He pauses an huffs a bit in amusement, grabbing it to pour another, though he also motions and asks for another bottle. Something to mix in so its not so strong.]
Its like how you react to the thought of friends who aren't Wukong. Maybe start like that.
What would make you comfortable to have someone else call you friend? And try going at it from that angle.
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[ He empties his glass again and fills it with more of the strong stuff. And then drinks half of that. ]
If I only knew. MK is already on me about being his friend, and Cole to a much less intense extent, and they won't accept me telling them that it's a terrible idea.
With Wukong it was always like a joke about magnets, we couldn't keep from getting closer if we tried. Even during this conversation where he was essentially shooting me down, he had his arms and tail around me for half of it. With him it's natural. With anyone else it definitely isn't.
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Well, at least that's proof he definitely wants things to work out. He wants closeness, even if he's afraid. Especially when he's not that touchy with most. You're special.
Why do you think you're a terrible idea to befriend?
Re: after the truthshrooms
[ Since the mushrooms have yet to wear off, Macaque smiles a bit at the thought that Wukong still thinks he's special. And so he takes a long drink to cover it up. ]
Don't you start on me too. It's no great mystery why I'm afraid to get close to people.
Re: after the truthshrooms
[He shrugged.] I like to think I'm a little less...overwhelming in these matters than Noodle Boy. I don't know about Cole, but he can be kind of pushy.
And I know why you're afraid to get close to people, but it is different than being a terrible idea. There's being afraid of being hurt and thinking the idea in general is terrible.
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I'll hurt him. Both of them. It's a certainty, because I don't get close to people and I feel backed into a corner the more they try. And I don't want to do that.
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Noodle Boy just decided one day we were going to be friends and he refused to take no for an answer. And of course I did say no. I was saying no for a long, long time.
I don't know if it was stubborn optimism, or his intuition that made him pursue me because he knew I wanted him to on some level.
Then I heard about the day on the beach.
I was taken from the moment I was captured into the scroll. Wukong actually told me about it at first and that may have contributed to our problems. After all, here Wukong shows up when its just us here, telling me that hey, my parents are fine! Not only that, they're comfortable enough around everyone we could have a day on the beach! [He waves his hands in the air.] I couldn't believe it at first. It sounded too good to be true.
I had been spending everyday since we defeated the Lady Bone Demon absolutely certain one day our friendship was going to fall apart. That father would decide he wanted to conquer again and I would have to choose.
Yet I let them pull me along anyway. Let them befriend me and make me happy because it felt too painful to reject it before I was forced to. I was too selfish and masochistic to do so.
Then MK confirmed the beach happened and it was... [He laughs breathlessly, and take another long sip.] A lot.
I could be his friend. I didn't have to hold back. Whatever made my parents agree to a beach day, I could make sure it lasted a century at least. I didn't have to guard my heart from the knife I was sure I was going to have to force into it anymore.
.....and I realized all the ways I had been a bad friend to him.
Re: after the truthshrooms
--How wonderful for you. But like everyone else, you're missing the point.
Look what I did to the person I love most in the world. I broke him apart just because I could. Because anger was easier than feeling anything else. Imagine what MK would do with that. He has enough troubles in this world, enough doubts. I'm not going to be another thing he has to survive.
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Bad enough the Weremonkey almost killed me.
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I don't need a reason anyway. "No" should be enough of an answer.
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The fact is, I hurt MK. I hurt him badly.
And that was after I apologized after months of not. How he had gone after me over and over again for friendship and I never even had the nerve to let him know that I regret now all those times I hurt him now.
So I apologized and told him I never wanted to hurt him on purpose again.
And then I hurt him bad enough that he lashed out, albeit in a form that makes it hard for him to control his emotions. But I still did that.
And then I apologized again, even if I didn't tell him....how badly I got hurt. [Because MK definitely didn't need to know THE EXTENT.] Just enough for him to know that I was the reason why he was upset the morning after.
Because even if MK isn't demanding apologies or attempts to make up for past actions, he deserves them. And I love him, so I make sure to give him what he's owed. Especially when I fuck up with him.
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The difference is you're willing to try it. And I really shouldn't need to say anything more than that I don't want to for everyone to just accept it. Maybe that changes for me and maybe not, but it's not something I should have to be talked into.
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But.
Let your no be because its what you want over what you're afraid might happen to MK. MK isn't fragile. Especially when you are so ready to accept when others do the exact same fuck ups you're afraid of doing yourself.
Sometimes he makes it so he just has to endure things, true, but that's why he has people around him. To make sure he gets what he deserves.
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I should really stop explaining myself because all it does is make people assume it's a starting point for negotiations.
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But I'll drop it. So. Wukong?
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[ Apparently Macaque isn't quite ready to drop it. Mushrooms and all. ]
Wukong has always been the only exception to all of that. Even our brothers, it was never the same. I wouldn't have bothered with them at all if Wukong hadn't pulled me in. And I'm quite sure they wouldn't have bothered with me.
Since I met him, I never needed or wanted anyone else. Then MK comes along and keeps insisting I'm his teacher when I only did that to get to Wukong, and he said he's willing to accept scraps of friendship from me and that's blatantly ridiculous, Cole keeps insisting he trusts me and what is wrong with them that they can't see what's wrong with me?
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I know what I see in you, but that may be different from what they see. MK, at least, has a history of finding things in people they wouldn't see in themselves and then pulling them out. Whether or not that's on purpose or just his effect on people, I don't know.
Though I think what he sees as scraps is different from how you see it. That's probably him being patient.
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[ His tone certainly implies he doesn't want to be fluffed up. ]
He can see the scraps thing however he likes, but I know he doesn't deserve that. Him being willing to accept shoddy treatment doesn't make it right.
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[He takes another drink and then rests his cheek against his fist, looking Macaque over with a thoughtful look.]
Its definitely not rose colored glasses. Its just my experiences. I'm sure if you had to choose between me and either Wukong or MK to drop into the abyss, I would go into the abyss. I would assume you'd choose yourself over me as well. I know if I give you a reason to be cruel, you'd be cruel without hesitation.
You'd probably be all right with using me too, if you had a enough reason.
But I do think at this point, you'd need a significant enough reason. Maybe not a good one, but a significant one.
There is something to that though. Your jagged edges are present enough that its impossible to put you on a pedestal, and that makes you oddly easy to talk to. Even beyond Wukong. I don't have to worry about looking less than perfect because you're not perfect, and you're not trying to be perfect. MK, Wukong, even Saya, all have roles where they try to play, whether its on purpose or not. Be the hero, be appealing, be all these things that people want and its hard to not buy into it a little bit. And that can make it hard to say certain things because even if I trust MK to not reject me, it makes me hold back certain things because I don't want to burden him, or make him disappointed.
But you? As long as there's enough trust to believe you're not going to turn around and use all that personal information like a knife, its easy to start talking and keep talking.
You don't make me feel judged or like I'm not doing good enough, even when I don't feel like I'm good enough. The feelings were already there, but they can finally be safely outside and you'll listen, or push to get past those feelings without looking for the 'right' answer, just the answer needed to go somewhere.
Basically, for all you have fronts and layers of sarcasm, all that is enough of a sign that you're imperfect, but also its clear you're really good at figuring people out, that lying to you doesn't feel like there's much point.
And suddenly, its all right to be imperfect.
And that...
[He looks at his glass.] That is something to treasure. To have someone you can say your failures around and not have to feel like one for daring to breathe a word of them.
There's more, but I believe we've talked about being overwhelming.
Re: after the truthshrooms
Might as well say whatever else, or I'll drive myself crazy trying to guess. [ You can't just say something like that and leave it. ]
[ Macaque doesn't sound overwhelmed, at least. He's just quiet. ]
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For reference, I would not be surprised if that was something MK valued. He and I are similar in that fear.
[He pours more into his glass, though not the good stuff this time.]
Of course, there is the more general, obvious things. You're strong. [This is always an Attractive Trait to the Demon Bull Family.] You're good in bed. You're can be just fun to be around.
You've always been fairly straight with me. I know what you expect of me, you don't demand things I can't give. Its easy to just be candid. There is a lot of understanding when it comes to MK and Wukong. Its easy to be around you, and I hope that is as natural as I thought and isn't just you making it easy on purpose.
You're clever. You're thoughtful of why things are happening and why you do things, even if you have to examine things after the fact. You don't treat people with kid gloves, and at least I don't think you're unkind about it. But my standards could be skewed there. Demon and all.
[There is a pause.]
I think you're motivated a lot more by love than I think anyone would expect.
You listen to me. Not just about my headspace, but for doing things. Take me seriously.
Re: after the truthshrooms
I know MK sees some of those same things, even the flaws. He's not stupid. He's the opposite, when it comes to others. But he can be very stupid about himself.
He was upset that I said yes to going to bed with you and no to him, that's how much he doesn't get it. How different those two things are. Part of it was being jealous of you and someone else, but still. He really doesn't see himself accurately in the slightest.
There's no way he won't keep asking for more and more. He won't even realize it, since it's so natural to him. So it's not that I'll hurt him eventually, it's that it would be continuous. There is no time when I wouldn't be fighting it.
Re: after the truthshrooms
But if you're rejecting his friendship actively, it does send some mixed signals. And he is an idiot about himself.
Do you want me to talk to him about that? [Red Son knows he's not gonna stop MK, but maybe help ease any accidental hurts.]
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